“Get good at arguing”: Johnny Marr peels back his creative process
Johnny Marr is working with three Epidemic Sound artists as part of our mentorship program, The Bridge. Today, he answers the public’s burning questions about his creative process.
Johnny Marr knows a thing or two about a thing or two. The legendary songwriter changed music forever with The Smiths, rubbed shoulders with everyone from Pet Shop Boys to Oasis, and helped score one of the 21st century’s most-loved films, Inception.
We put the question to the people, asking what they wanted to know about the man behind the music. Keep reading as Johnny peels back the curtain on writing, working, and living as a creative.
How do you remain a student while also being a master?
Johnny Marr: “If you’ve got a passion for being a musician — or whatever it is you’re lucky enough to do for a living — then you kind of just do that anyway. It’s something I’ve done since being a kid.
“If there’s an artist I like — in whatever field — I want to read their interviews. I want to know what makes them tick, who inspired them. I want to know who inspired David Hockney, Aldous Huxley, Joan Didion — all the people I revere and can learn something from.
“That isn’t gonna happen if I’m sat glaring at a screen, watching reels and social media all day, and just vegging out. So, you have to put the work in and follow that passion. Read books, watch telly and lots of interviews, and follow up on the people you’re interested in. That’s what I do.”
If you get stuck in a creative rut, songwriting or guitar-wise, what do you do to get yourself out of it?
JM: “I work my way through it. Sometimes, it makes me feel like I know nothing and my idea isn’t very good, but I persevere and persevere.
“I’ve got some friends who will put the guitar down, leave the studio, and not come back unless they’re feeling inspired. I get that — I absolutely get that. But from when I first started to write my little songs when I was a youngster, what works for me is just wearing myself down until my spirit is broken; and then come back the next day, haha!”
You’ve played many different guitars, but, regardless of their character or era, what are your tips for creating your own unique tone?
JM: “Like most things, it’s about working at it. The good news is that, if you’ve got a unique style, it’s to do with getting things wrong.
“I was shooting to try and sound like my heroes on the guitar: James Honeyman-Scott from The Pretenders, Nile Rodgers, Rory Gallagher, and Bert Jansch, the folk guitar player. Loads and loads of different guitar players. I was trying to play like them and getting stuff wrong, making assumptions, thinking that certain things were played a certain way, and doing it the wrong way round. It made me come up with my own thing.
“In today’s tutorial-video age, it’s so easy to see tutorials on YouTube now that are very, very good. I do wonder if everyone’s getting it technically a little bit too right and therefore not walking the maverick path.”
Performing on stage can be very nerve-racking, and I’m aware that in the early Smiths days, you were the same. So, what was it that gave you the confidence to be your own frontman?
JM: “Early days, in the ‘80s, I used to get very nervous. I think just getting older, not necessarily more confident, but just trusting my audience a little more helped.
“One of the great things about being a young, attitude-y teenage musician is that very thing: you’ve got attitude and feel like you’ve got something to prove. And that’s sort of part and parcel of it, but it’s nice to remember that the audience actually wants you to do well. They’re behind you, and actually kinda like you. Even if they don’t really know you, people just want to be entertained.
“You know, experience made me. There isn’t any sort of magic pill, really, but just trust me — it’s alright. What’s the worst that can happen?”
If you could give just one piece of advice for a beginner band, what would it be?
JM: “Enjoy it. I know plenty of musicians who’ve had success and had a terrible old time, for one reason or another. But, if you don’t have success, you might as well enjoy it.
“Another piece of advice would be just don’t give up, ‘cause what else are you going to do — just go watch the telly? If we’re talking about being in a band, having the fun time of the band all looking alike, all wearing similar clothes — it’s a nice thing. Bit of a band aesthetic! Makes you feel good. Makes you feel like a gang.
“There are loads of great things about being in a gang: friendship, shared struggle, shared dreams, shared disappointments, shared joys. The important thing is, enjoy the sharing. It’s pretty good. And making music? There’s worse things to do in life.”
How can someone continue being creative while struggling financially?
JM: “If you’ve got to do two jobs to pay the rent, I understand that’s a challenging sort of situation. But all I can say is that, even though I’ve been very fortunate, when I was a youngster trying to get it together, the powers that be — whether it was school or being skint or whatever — were pretty much stacked up against me.
“And I was very aware that no one could really stop me reading books that inspired me, listening to interviews that inspired me. You’ve just got to feed the creative muse. It’s a tricky subject, that economic subject.
“The actual choice of being creative is in there [points to his head]. I don’t mean to be glib about it, but no one can really take that away from you — I’d like to think so, anyway. I’d rather have been a starving creative person than a sort-of-successful, non-creative person.”
As an artist who’s mastered storytelling, what’s your process for identifying the right sound to shape the emotional tone of a video?
JM: “When I’ve tried to put some music into a scene on a film with Hans Zimmer, I know when it’s wrong straight away. But that’s because you have to almost imagine that the music’s already been made, and that you’re not actually doing it. You have to be prepared to go ‘no, nope, nope, no,’ when you’re doing something.
“I mean, you ask about tone, the sound being right. You have to just trust your own instincts, I think. But, in order to trust your own instincts, it doesn’t work if you’re hungover. So…just don’t be hungover. Or high. High is the worst, ‘cause you think your instincts are really tuned in, but they’re not.”
How do you get over the fear of sharing your work with the rest of the world? I love to create, but I’m terrified of sharing.
JM: “Well, the good news is you’ll be dead for a long time, so you might as well go for it. Don’t be afraid to fail.
“On a more practical level: just run it by a couple of your pals. I mean, if your friends are anything like my pals, they were the absolute toughest audience I ever had. They were brutal. So, just make sure you’ve got some discerning friends who aren’t gonna kiss your arse. And, if they like it, you’re alright.”
In your collaborations across different projects, how do you balance being open to others’ creative input while also staying true to your own artistic vision?
“I think what you’re talking about there is ego and letting go. I’ve always operated on the principle that the best idea wins. So, in my experience, I’ve written songs in studios with different people; I can hear if their idea is better than mine, really. Or, if you’ve done something and they wanna change it, it’s gotta be better than your idea. And if it isn’t, you just get good at arguing.”
How do you balance creating music as a career with the basic things of life like exercise, relationships, and time with friends and family?
JM: “The honest answer is that I have lived many, many years of my creative life with no balance. I’ve just been fortunate enough to have friends and family who allow me to sometimes miss birthdays, miss appointments. But I am very, very privileged in that regard, because it’s my livelihood, and my business, and all of that.
“Sometimes it’s not gonna be in balance. If you’ve gotta finish a song, then you have to just make that call yourself. I’d like to have a catch-all, wise answer for that. I do wish that, maybe, I’d lived a slightly more balanced life, on occasion. But it’s okay.
“One thing that’s along this line: you make better work if you’re in better shape. So, if we’re talking about exercise, self-care, and mental health, remember that it benefits the work. It’s actually good for your creative life to have that balance. There — taken me 60 years to work that out!”
Need more Johnny Marr? Learn about his work with Epidemic Sound’s mentorship program, The Bridge — he’s giving three of our artists the opportunity of a lifetime.
If you’re feeling inspired, why not check out Johnny’s Rebel Spirit playlist? Curated exclusively with tracks from Epidemic Sound’s roster, you’ll find a shimmering collection of choppy riffs, crystalline tones, and crackling energy.
*This interview has been edited for length and clarity.
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